Just as an update, I did end up with diarrhea that started on tuesday and is still going on. Bleh.

Kahlil is probably right. I was staffing, so I spent a lot of time in the office, but my son and b/f and I all ate the meal plan and drank the water -- as always -- and none of us got sick. My son staffed the coffee dragons and the kitchen both, and had no signs of illness. But intestinal and other viruses can spread very quickly in crowded conditions, and it doesn't take intimate or close contact for that to happen.

I've had similar intestinal issues occur after concerts and amusement park visits, and I generally blame the crowds and other people's carelessness, as in not washing hands then hugging or touching people. Or coming to an event sick and passing it along to many, many people.

didnt have the meal plan, brought our own food and H2o and was sober except the beer... was ill and tummy still hurts.
i hope that all is well with people whom have contacted this mystery

my friend just informed that last night he threw up and had diarrhrea. he is a very clean person, extremely particular. he didn't eat the plan food and he take any goodies. he drank the water from one of the faucets (i think the one next to the coffee and tea tent). so there are some others who are getting the delay reactions to this. am curious what we will come up with.

:raises hand:

I felt fine driving home yesterday (Sunday) and also felt fine this morning. Whatever it is... I've got it now though. (onset 4pm Monday)

My two campmates both got sick with this as well. My wife had vomiting and diarrhea late Sat night and our friend got sick around 10am on Sunday. Neither of us were on the meal plan but we drank water pretty much exclusively from the faucet near North Crook... next to the showers/potties. My wife and I swam near the sweatlodge for about 2 minutes on Thursday... so I doubt that was the cause.

Ugh... I think I'm gonna go home and lie down :(

I think it may have been bathroom-related transmission because I am almost certain everybody used the bathrooms. Water/swimming issues like giardia usually take a week or so to come on.

I was religious about washing hands and using sanitizer and mostly stayed away from the portajohns, didn't feel sick at all.

I doubt it was that. I used the sanitizer after every time I used the bathroom that I brought with me. Those porta-potties didn't have hand sanitizer, it was hand soap. When you don't have water, then it is rather hard to wash your hands with the soap. Also, those porta-potties were extremely unsanitary. A lot of them were over flowing. I went to PDF, which was only $35 for 5 days and they managed to drain their porta-potties every day. The flushable toilets were clogged by the showers and were not fixed for almost 24 hours even though several people told the workers of the four quarters. I think it was some sort of parasite. Some people's bodies can fight them off and others can not. All I want is the 4 Quarters Farm crew to take precautions if they are going to host an event. Check the food, water, river, and clean the bathrooms. We pay way too much to take these risks. I am still having a hard time processing food. I am going to see my doctor. If he has any explanation, then I will share it with you and the 4 Quarters Crew. The Gaian Mind crew were the only people who helped me and I give thanks for everything that they did for me.

oh yeah, and i also usually drink lots of water. LOTS! this could have been an important factor.

I too had no symptoms until I woke up today. I was actually reading this very thread the first time I threw up. It's been very persistent since then and also very violent. I only drank water Saturday night, no meal plan or anything. Also did not go swimming in the stream. But I was extremely over tired, over worked, and I definitely did not eat normally.

But I had a great time and thankfully this held out till today.

While I didn't attend Gaian Mind this year my whole family experienced similar symptoms about 2-3 weeks ago after PDF. In addition, we also had strep throat develop less then a week later. I would keep an eye on your throat and lungs and if you notice anything unusual go to the doctors. It sucked really badly.

I also had something very similar happen to me while in Boston about 6 months ago. Sharing water bottles, smokes, and other things can lead to the spread of this kind of stuff.

Jenn it sucks that you were sick. XOXO (well maybe not the O's you are sick after all)

Oh, and I don't think I drank any cold tap water, though I had plenty of tea and coffee from the Coffee Dragon.

I received a fast response from the four quarters crew. I now think that it was most likely the norovirus. I would suggest using your own dishes and your own means of cleaning them in the future. Now my OCD can stop. Sorry about the insane amount of posts. I put my name after my comments in the email. I hope that this helps because it helped me a lot. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Jenn and thanks for your questions.

Given your symptoms, you almost certainly had norovirus, the common stomach
flu. We have been tracking it through various festivals and gatherings up
and down the east coast for the past two years.

We work with the PA Dept of Health, and in long conversations with the PA
State Epidemiologist on the subject (he is a great guy and very
knowledgeable) I have come to learn the following about norovirus:

* Norovirus is responsible for 90% of all gastro-intestinal illness.
* The base vector of transmission is intestinal fluids and solids.
* Many infections of norovirus produce no symptoms, and infections may
provide some short term immunity. The virus is mutable and changes year to
year. Persons showing no symptoms are still infectious.
* Typically illness arrives at least 3 and more often 5 to 8 days after
exposure with flu-like symptoms (aches, vomiting, lethargy) and stomach
upset. Usually mild, sometimes severe. It's delayed onset compared to the
immediate (12 hour) onset of bacterial gastro-intestinal illness, is a
prime diagnostic tool separating viral from bacterial.
* It is seasonally heat related and an individuals susceptibility may be
promoted by heat exhaustion (It was rather hot on Saturday-Jenn)
* For reasons not understood norovirus will survive for longer periods on
vegetables and particularly green leafy vegetables. (Why more people eating the vegetarian diet could have caught this.-Jenn)
* It is not associated with water supplies, except where it can be
concentrated in standing water, like hand dip buckets. (Dish cleaning buckets outside of the kitchen and at the coffee dragon. -Jenn)
* It is strongly associated with "Open Serve." Meaning situations where
people serve themselves from a common tray, and very much so if by hand,
ie: finger foods. Open trays of sliced fruit, dips, chips and the like.
* It is strongly associated with travel, and groups of people travelling.
It is very strongly associated with people travelling between large gatherings.
* It can be transmitted by some forms of sexual play.
* It may be associated with imported and "factory prepared" green
vegetables, cut and bagged. (I personally think this is the reason for its
rapid growth over the past 20 years)
* Each season its spread can be tracked in association with travel on the
interstate highway system.
* For all the above reasons it has reached epidemic proportions in the US.

Water systems can transmit bacterial infections; and last year we had our
water system tested by the state per our request. A 1 micron absolute
filter on 600 gallons of water, solvent extracted, centrifuged to a pellet
and microscopically examined for bacteria. We passed with zero indications.
It is worth noting that our well was built to community water
specifications at great cost. It is not a residential grade well. We also
flush the system with chlorine when we start up for the season and for each
event thereafter.

We asked for this testing after a group that used our camp for two weeks in
July last year fell ill with what was diagnosed as norovirus (Stomach Flu).
In their case the PA state epidemiological investigation and food
sanitarian implicated:
* A kitchen setup person arriving actively ill with norovirus.
* Their "open serve" food handling policy, people serving themselves,
especially raw vegetables and dips.
* Their use of hand dip buckets rather than hand washing.
* A physically intimate social setting.

We have complete confidence in our water system, few camps and few home
wells can pass the tests we had performed with zero indications. We also
have confidence in our kitchen which has been examined by the Bedford
County Food Sanitarian and is a closed serve kitchen with a small closed
staff that prepares and serves the food. It is power washed prior to each
event and chlorine washed each night. No kitchen staff has ever displayed
norovirus symptoms before or during their service.

However, we know as a positive fact that at every event we do, folks arrive
sick with norovirus, and we know the rate is increasing each year. Some of
our events have either a field kitchen operated by attendees, or have been
provided by us with an open serve finger food table. Additionally, it is
common practice in some alternative cultures to share food, often placed on
an open platter and passed through the crowd. All of these situations are
open invitations to norovirus infection.

For all of the above reasons, our Board of Directors has prohibited open
serve food at events we organize. We are developing an information sheet
for attendees and organizers, and will probably require that they "sign
off" on it if they intend to run a separate kitchen operation or provide
"gifted food." So no more late night humus, chips, watermelon, grapes and
carrots around the Fire Circle or the dance floor.

Please do feel free to call me at our offices if you have any further
questions or concerns. Or if you care to share details of how you think you
might have been exposed, given the above information. We share your
concerns and are actively collecting information to advise the continued
development of our camp policies.

Best
Orren Whiddon
Exec. Officer
Four Quarters
814-784-3075

This same thing happened to folks who attended Wickerman and Fires Rising. There's definitely something wrong on-site. This isn't lack of hygiene, folks. That's pretty obvious. 4QF better find out what's causing it and fix it.

I'd like to clear up one thing. Whatever bug has been passed around at these events, it's almost definitely NOT Giardia, which is also know as "beaver fever," and is usually contracted by DRINKING water in which beavers and other mammals. Here's what the CDC has to say about Giardia:

Giardia can be spread by:

* Accidentally putting something into your mouth or swallowing something that has come into contact with feces of a person or animal infected with Giardia.
* Swallowing recreational water contaminated with Giardia. Recreational water includes water in swimming pools, hot tubs, jacuzzis, fountains, lakes, rivers, springs, ponds, or streams that can be contaminated with sewage or feces from humans or animals.
* Eating uncooked food contaminated with Giardia.
* Accidentally swallowing Giardia picked up from surfaces (such as bathroom fixtures, changing tables, diaper pails, or toys) contaminated with feces from an infected person.

HOWEVER -- and this is the big issue here -- their Web site also says:

Symptoms of giardiasis normally begin 1 to 2 weeks (average 7 days) after becoming infected. [That's WEEKS, folks, not days]

In otherwise healthy persons, symptoms of giardiasis may last 2 to 6 weeks. Occasionally, symptoms last longer.

In other words, if you picked up a bug this past weekend, and you're already sick, then it's probably something else. Since, as I've said before, I spend most weekends at the farm, drink the water, eat the food, and swim in the water, I'd vote for something being passed from one person to the next. I also use the showers, the camp bathrooms, and so on. Granted, I have a pretty healthy immune system, but I'm more likely to catch something from the people I work with (in a call center, where we share work stations and phones) than I am to get sick by attending events at Four Quarters.

The fact of the matter is that any time you get a large number of people together, even a few who are sick can infect a lot of people in a weekend.

and it'd a lot stronger this time around.... when it hit me at 4QF, it was quite mild, and was gone in less than an hour.

Eartha... "I know quite a bit about the dreaded Norovirus, having contracted it last year during the huge outbreak in Boston. " I totally experienced this in February while visiting Boston. HOLY SHIT was it the worst thing that ever happened to me. I was in a hotel in Boston and to say that I experienced the most disgusting thing I've ever had happen to me was a understatement. I was nearly hospitalized!

It hit me at around 6 this morning. Jeez - I haven't thrown up like that since I was little. Luckily I got back to my parents' house in Vermont last night, so I've been grateful to have some help from them - although I'd feel so horrible if they got sick. :(

At first I was sure it was something I ate on the long haul back - as I rarely eat fast food. But after talking to one of my partners in crime on the phone this afternoon and discovering that he had the same thing, it all started to make sense. lol

I really hope everyone is okay. All my body has been wanting is ice cold water/gatorade. I'm definitely getting cleaned out. lawl.

Be well, all. Please post if you get any results back from a lab.

~Soph

Well, 2 of us arrived on Friday afternoon, and felt pretty good throughout until we got back home on Sunday night at 7:00 p.m. Started with chills, dizziness and nausea...then violent rounds of vomiting....I also felt I wanted to die, and considered that a doctor or hospital may be the best. Not sleeping yet, I decided to lie down, and finally started to sleep. My husband then also started vomitind and shits for a bit of the evening. Woke up Monday, dizzy and confused.....
NO meal plans, lots of the water from the faucet by coffee dragon, no swimming, no sweat lodge, and no shower, however, lots of wet naps, hand sanitizer, and a high tolerence for sickness.. I am never sick, and am very careful and I am quite upset that this was the outcome. Agreed , all had a great time, which could have been without this hazard.
Not sure about next year.

The only logical conclusion we can draw from all of this is that the lightning strike must have brought down an alien plague upon us. So obvious!

Hello!
We ran the KinderTribe and up until Sunday early morning I only heard of one sick child. This is when I awoke to fevers, chills, and puking.
Mark Lilly who was also working in our area had the same. We left immediately as I felt terrible and certainly did not want to spread it further to the kids participating or the several pregnant women.
When we left my 2.5year old and husband were still fine. However it is a virus, because my husband got it 12 hours after we arrived home, my son a few hours later and Gavin Stephenson who was in our camp and I work with is suffering now. My little guy has been sick longer then 12 hours but just with diarrhea. We were really fastidious about keeping our hands sanitized, but nonetheless we go it. I really hope the other kids remained germ free!
Those dip buckets make me really skeptical, they could have been changed more often, and the north crook toilets and porto potties certainly could have been cleaner.
Hope you are all feeling better, we all still have some light lingering...

I can second that -- I didn't eat any 4 Quarters food and I also got sick. I think it was either the water or the mugs. I thought I noticed the water tasting not so fresh towards the end of the event. And that setup for washing the mugs didn't seem so sanitary towards the end.

I didn't start feeling really sick until Monday morning. I hope everyone is starting to feel better -- my stomach is still aching today. :-(

TO END THIS ARGUMENT AND TO MOVE BACK TO LIGHT WORKING
All but 2 or 3 of the people I know who attended got sick. Thats of 40 or so people!
Nobodys fault....., but, a facility with huge sickness reports should undergo a huge investigation and results should all be publicized. real results, not hear say and type ups from staff, but lab result and inspection forms . I know I hate proper liability and legal mumbo jumbo but hey its for the festival goers that want to know if it is safe to continue going to 4q.
I mean not to stir up problems but to show everybody there is a simple solution..
test and share
BUT MOST OF ALL READ THE BELOW INFORMATION
I am encouraging and personally taking all the energy I have recieved from these sacred lands and bringing it home. Its time to stir up some huge change in our own lands and back yards We all have to stay together and not let incidences like this deter us from our main goal of unity, love, and light. There will be and I repeat there will be a dark force lingering behind your back to discourage you from unity and community events.
think about that for a moment and realign to your intentions.
CONCENTRATE ON WHAT WE ALL NEED TO ACCOMPLISH
think globally and act locally
love and light

I thought God was punishing me. All the people in the car I drove with got sick. I was the last to get it, but as soon as I got home I got cold sweats and spent a few hours close to the toilet. I am still not perfect. My body is very sensitive. my lymph nodes were swollen and my muscles ached. then I had a dream about being in a shitter, and I knew that's where i caught the bug, and the last post here is indicative of that as well. It only takes one sick person to start it off.

I am glad I got to see what psytrance is all about. I wanna say, "HOLY CRAP!" for more reasons than one. it's definitely not for me. they keep trying to get me, but with God on my side, they will never suck me in. the bug really felt like a lingering darkness, and in a way reminds me of how twisted things are in such places.

Hello everyone,
I just put in a call to the Bedford County PA Dept of Health and talked to a nice Nurse there. She said I was the first person she has heard from about this incident. She is going to call me back on Monday to discuss things further. She asked that I compile a list for her of different cases. I am going to email them to her on Monday, and hopefully we can get a confirmation on exactly what this was.

She asked for peoples age, date you got to the festival, when your symptoms started and what your symptoms were, also anyone that went to the Dr. and had a stool sample taken (this will greatly help in determining the cause, and she would be thankful if you could share this information with her).

If you want to talk to her or just need someone to talk about this please call her:
Her name is Debbie Sechrist - her # is 814-623-2001 and she also informed Bonnie Krampy her # 717-787-8092 in Harrisburg about the ordeal as well.

She might not be in the office until Monday, but you can give her a try, or contact me and I can forward your information along with the email I am sending on Monday, or give you her email address.

Thanks, I will keep everyone informed of what I hear. Hope everyone feels better real soon :)

Melanie

does this all mean that we are going to be immune for the orb fest???? I bet so! yay! - gwyn

All we did was drink from the hoses - no coffee no meal plan.

andrea, no offense but i brought bottled water. i've also been camping million times with thousands of people.....and never gotten sick from it, except this time... I think its silly to think it was the water.

The CDC Web site is a better source than Wikipedia for information on disease. According to their site, as I stated earlier, Giardia takes 1 to 2 WEEKS for symptoms to develop. In addition, the staff members would not be immune to this kind of illness, and it would not go away without antibiotics. You cannot self-diagnose a bacterial infection; it would require the appropriate antibiotics.

In my case, my symptoms were identical to those found in Giardia, minus that fact that it hit me potentially 3 days after I was exposed to it (things go through my body quicker than most people). I just recovered completely yesterday (Sunday). The fact that it lasted so long makes me believe that it was a parasite of some sort. I talked to my doctor today (once AGAIN!) and she said that my sample is still in the lab. I will call again tomorrow to bug them and will let you all know as soon as I know.

I'll be a "me too" for the Giardia vote. Whether norovirus, giardia, food poisoning or whatever it is...it sure does suck.

I was the first of the Gaian Mind camp to get sick - I had symptoms on the morning of Wednesday the 18th, even though I only arrived at Four Quarters 3.5 days earlier on the evening of Saturday the 14th. I only felt the physical effects for about 12 hours, but the malaise still has not left me twelve days later. When am I going to feel like my usual happy self again?

I'm going to lead a banishing ritual in the Pine Barrens to rid us all of the affects of this virus once and for all. Contact me if you want to lend your energies to that effort.

L <3 V E !
Despite the blech

Reverend PLURall

has anyone who was not at 4 quarters get it - I mean has anyone spread it??? - gwyn

Aw, Roberta. I love you. Glad you were with us this year at the fest.

yeah the Kombucha helped

I'm finally starting to get my energy back. For a week there I was just totally lethargic and spent most of my time worshipping the porcelain god :) Regardless, it's a small price to pay for the good times that were had.

coward.

you spent the time to create an anonymous profile to be an asshole.

To all that care:


I got my stool test results back...only took 2 weeks!

No parasites were found.

How is it admitting guilt to say that the health department found no cause of contamination in either the water or the FQ4 kitchen??? The only setup implicated was, in fact, a kitchen NOT run by staff members but one of the field kitchens the board has decided to ban. The "open serve" was not offered by the Farm at Gaian Mind.

The hand-dip buckets? As I mentioned in an earlier post, the dishes for the kitchen were washed again afterward. I don't know about others who rinsed their own personal dishes and then re-used them.

At any rate, there were no outbreaks at Drum N Splash, where only the meal plan was available for those who didn't prepare their own foods. And there were no open serve or field kitchens permitted. So it looks like this is the route to take.

As for the water, the new system was not yet approved and fully in place, but the water was never implicated in the first place.